Beyond the Fix Podcast
Beyond the Fix - the Podcast by Critical Scientists Switzerland
The belief that science and technology can fix all our problems is widespread - but is it justified? The Beyond the Fix podcast offers a deep dive into commonly proposed fixes to the challenges we face today in areas such as climate, energy, economics, agriculture, food and human health. Our host Thomas Kobel talks to scientists, policy-makers, and practitioners about thought-provoking perspectives that will not leave your view of promised solutions untouched. Listen to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or here.
04/RONY EMMENEGGER on Deep Geological Repositories for Solving the Nuclear Waste Problem?
In this episode, we focus on one of the most challenging problems generated by human technology: where can highly radioactive waste from nuclear energy production be safely disposed for the next one million years?
Our guest, Dr. Rony Emmenegger, is a political geographer with a keen interest in the governance of human-environment relations. His work focuses on how knowledge of the deep geological underground is produced in the case of nuclear waste governance and how it is articulated and contested in the public sphere.
Through the lens of political geology, Rony tells the story of the long search for a deep geological repository in Switzerland (and beyond) and its crucial socio-political implications. He introduces us to the concept of passive safety, which builds on the idea that responsibility for radioactive waste can be delegated to geological formations underground to ensure safety in the long term. Given the widespread social and political attitude to rely on techno-scientific expertise, he urges us to move away from asking whether or not a problem can be solved – in this case by deep geological repositories – and to focus on what kind of science is actually involved.
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03/CHRISTINE VON WEIZSÄCKER on Why Technofixes Won’t Save Us
In this episode we look at the technofix narrative, its relationship to innovation and precaution, and ask why it has become so prevalent when it comes to addressing (socio-)ecological problems. We also discuss alternatives and why the complexity of living systems requires different approaches.
Our guest, Christine von Weizsäcker, is a biologist and President of Ecoropa – the European Network for Ecological Reflection and Action. She has been involved in the negotiations of the UN Convention on Biological Diversity, its Protocols and in the follow up to the Earth Summit in Rio for many years. She is a vocal advocate of the Rio principles of precaution, polluter-pays and public participation.
Christine introduces us to the important role that technofixes have played in environmental policy, which is linked to a narrow understanding of innovation. She calls for critical, i.e. differentiating, and multidisciplinary approaches. She also points to importance of considering long-term and far-reaching impacts of scientific and technological proposals that promise to solve singled out aspects of the multiple and interlinked current crises. Christine also shares valuable insights into the power of framing in public perception and politics.
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02/JÉRÔME SANTOLINI on Science and Regulatory Policy: The Example of Meat Curing with Nitrite
In this episode we look at a relatively old industrial fix: the use of nitrite—a toxic chemical—for curing processed meat on a large scale. It’s a compelling case study to explore how regulatory policies are shaped and the complex role science plays in that process.
Our guest, Dr. Jérôme Santolini, a biochemist and research director at the Institute for Integrative Biology of the Cell at the University of Paris-Saclay, heads the Oxidative Stress and Detoxification Laboratory. He tells us about the biotoxicological mechanisms behind using nitrite to preserve meat and uncovers the historical origins of why a known a poison became a key tool in food preservation.
Jérôme sheds light on the intricate roles nitrites (and other nitric oxides) play in the human body, their effects, and their potential carcinogenic risks. He also offers his perspective on how we can approach meat curing—and eating—more thoughtfully. Drawing on the lessons of the failed nitrite regulation in France, he advocates for a more reflective approach to knowledge production: one that prioritises deep understanding over the relentless pursuit of data – a proposition that is relevant far beyond the example of meat curing.
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01/JULIA STEINBERGER on Fixing the Economy with ‘Green Growth’?
In this episode, we look at ‘green growth’, the idea that the problems of our current economy can be solved with green technologies while continuing to grow the economy. Our guest, Prof. Dr. Julia Steinberger, Professor of Ecological Economics at the University of Lausanne, talks about the differences between ecological and environmental economics, and more generally about the problems with dominant economics.
We explore the problems with the idea that growth can be sustained if only technologies change, discuss issues of decoupling or the rebound effect, and ultimately the need to address the neoliberal strategies behind many current policies. Julia explains alternative economic perspectives such as degrowth and postgrowth, which are based on actual human needs and planetary boundaries. She talks about one of her key research projects, 'Living Well Within Limits', which demonstrates the viability of such a needs-based and well-being-centred perspective, and the implications for transformative pathways beyond green growth.
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